Posted by t68iNWO
just thought you might like to know. sitting here at work watching the news and Cingular is looking to either merge or purchase another cellular company and the company that keeps popping up is AT&T wireless! Very interesting as each company is trying to compete with T-Mobile's dominance in the US GSM market. but that may be good for us T-Mobile users we'll probably see a price decrease and package feature increase!
So my questions are:
1. What do you think if Cingular and AT&T Wireless merged?
2. What do you think the new company will be called?
My answers:
1. both wireless companies suck so i could care less but for T-Mobile to be a much stronger competitor
2. i think the new company will be called AT&T Cingular.
Posted by rraz9228
I've heard about this news for a while now but I have comments on what you have posted.
1. The reason why Cingular is trying to Merge or buyout another cellphone company is because they wanted to be the No. 1 cellphone provider in the whole of US because as of now, they are second to Verizon(which is not a GSM provider). In short, they not trying to compete with T-Mobile. This being said that Cingular is the second largest cellphone provider, they are then a lot bigger than T-Mobile.
2. Also, like a year ago or two, when you say T-Mobile, the first thing that the Cellular world thinks is Cingular. This is for the reason that T-Mobile is not yet fully established in the US that a lot of their networks are being provided by Cingular(even up to now). This also means that during those time, T-Mobile only has service on areas where Cingular have because they are using Cingular's Network.
3. With the issue of Merger or Buyout, If Cingular chooses AT&T, their option is merger because AT&T is also big. But if they choose T-Mobile, they will just buy it out because T-Mobile is small enaugh for Cingular to just buy it.
[ This Message was edited by: rraz9228 on 2003-12-23 20:54 ]
Posted by t68iNWO
sure cingular is larger than t-mobile ONLY in the USA, but just the same in Texas, Cingular GSM users are using t-mobile's network through out central and east texas. yes, i know VZ is the largest cellular company as I am a Verizon employee (VZ Corp. the parent company, not wireless div.). but as far as t-mobile being to small, that is partially true because t-mobile is still trying to make a dent in the us market, but worldwide, cingular dwarfs in comparison to T-Mobile Int. which owns T-Mobile USA which then leads me to believe that T-Mo Int. will not sell it's USA division as this would be backing out of the USA market. what do you think? i think this topic is interesting as it can change the view of the entire wireless market in the us.
Posted by rraz9228
I dont mean to offend you. What I'm just trying to say is some facts that I know should be noted in your post.
First, I'm not arguing that T-Mobile is larger than Cingular worldwide, I know that fact. Actually if we are taking of world market, AT&T is even bigger than Cingular. What Im trying to say is Cingular is trying to Buy or Merge with another company not because I will quote you in this one.
You said:
"Cingular is looking to either merge or purchase another cellular company and the company that keeps popping up is AT&T wireless! Very interesting as each company is trying to compete with T-Mobile's dominance in the US GSM market"
Well, I just wanna say that what you said is not the reason why Cingular is trying to buy or merge with another carriers but because they wanted to beat Verizon as the No.1 Mobile proveider in the US and not trying to compete with T-Mobile.
Posted by t68iNWO
no, i'm not arguing
that's just what msnbc said is that they're looking, and looking hard.
the end result is....it's all about the bling bling!
Posted by rraz9228
Yup! you are right. Its all about the dominance in the market and bling bling(which I dont have). hehe!
Posted by methuselah
Cingular and T-Mobile are the same company....It has been kept a secret too long...Time to let it be known....I will be killed by morning for telling this.
Posted by t68iNWO
hahahahahahahaha
Posted by darrengf
If Cingular is owned by T-Mobile then this would give a unfair advantage to the other networks.
T-Mobile is owned by Deutsche Telekom AG. (German Telcom) which bought out several companies over the last few years.
Voice stream in the USA and one2one here in the UK.
Why would Deutsche Telekom AG not change the name of cingular like all the rest of the companies to T-Mobile. It would be in Deutsche Telekom AG in there own interest to have one main company which would have a worldwide name.
You can check www.telekom.de which does list every company that is owned by T-Mobile and Deutsche Telekom.
At&t and Cingular are both small companies in the Mobile phone market and may merge or even merge with companies from around the world this would give them a better prospect and cut costs down in new products, Companies share technologies like Mobile phone compaines share masts.
Here in the UK coverage is pretty good on all our main 4 networks but 3 the latest company is still new and only has limited coverage. So when you are out of range on the 3 network, the phone swaps to o2 but only for phone and sms.
Vodafone and Orange are looking to enter into the US Market and may opt to purchase or buy shares in either companies. The US GSM Mobile telecoms industry is a very new and up and coming area and also is a large slice in the telcoms industry.
T-Mobile Int would not sell T-Mobile US as this would not be seen as a viable soloution in the telcoms industry. It would show that T-Mobile int has no faith in the US market and T-Mobile has no faith in the product it sells. This could cause masive problems in the growth of the GSM / 3G networks in the US and a waist of investiments from companies.
The Vodafone and Orange Brand are a well known brand here in the UK as well as the rest of Europe, the brand is also know by most countries around the world.
However Orange is Ownded by France Telecom and Vodafone is own by Manesman, both are very big compaines.
I hope the above helps and makes sense.
Posted by moodswinger
T-Mobile is inferior in size to both AT&T and Cingular (not their GSM portions) and Deutsche Telekom was looking for a way to merge with someone (preferably Cingular) about 18 mos ago, since they were bleeding a lot of cash in this market (negative cashflow of about $1 billion per year).
I am not sure if they manged to stop that loss, but if they didn't, I wouldn't be surprised to see T-Mobile up for sale in the next year (regardless of its potential value).
On the other hand, if they managed to stop the cashbleed by attracting new customers (primarily from AT&T), it wouldn't be the least surprising to see Cingular and AT&T merging to position themselves for this "attack".
Posted by cingularman
I dont know if you have all see the news yesterday. But Cingular bought At&t outright Cash. I work for cingular. Cingular has its sights on Verizon Wireless for the Number 1 spot. they now have the most subscribers than verizon with the combination of cingular and at&t. T-moblie is not an issue for cingular. As far as anyone having a bigger coverage area...Verizon has the largest followed by Cingular. As far as GSM is concerned Cingular has the largest GSM coverage in the country not t-moblie. If you want the look at there websites and see the coverage for your self. Verizon is the only company with more coverage than cingular. But for GSM cingular is the largest.
Posted by moodswinger
Actually, Cingular and T-Mobile have the exactly same coverage, because they share towers and their customers roam on both networks for free.
Cingular has a far larger customer base they they converted to GSM, although T-Mobile has the oldest GSM network in the US.
@ darrengf: Vodafone is looking to expand, not establish their presence in the US, as they already own a half of Verizon Wireless.
Posted by cingularman
Cingular nationwide dosent use t-moblie for a roaming prefered partner. There nationwide partner for one year has been AT&t wireless. IN great lakes area we have never roamed on T-mobile. The GSM footprint for cingular has grown about 50% within the last year. But that is with the help of at&t that is why they wanted to buy them. IF Voadaphone won the bid for at&t they would have had to sell there 40% that they own of Verizon. There are someparts of the country where they have roaming agreements with t-moblie buit they are not there national partner.
Cingular has a larger GSM coverage area then t-molbie take a look..they are not the same
t-mobile
http://www.t-mobile.com/coverage/
cingular
http://onlinestore.cingular.com/html/Maps/nation_GSMgen_1_29_04.htm
[ This Message was edited by: cingularman on 2004-02-20 15:01 ]
[ This Message was edited by: cingularman on 2004-02-20 15:03 ]
Posted by moodswinger
@cingularman, I appreciate your loyalty to Cingular, however...
It is a wide known fact that Cingular and T-Mobile share towers (Cingular provides coverage for T-Mobile in the western part of the US, T-Mobile has done the same for Cingular in the eastern part of the US). They have been roaming partners for years, preferred or not, I would not know.
As for Verizon, why exactly would Vodafone have to sell their portion of VZW upon acquiring AT&T?
And finally, in the interest of truth, take a look at actual coverage maps on www.gsmworld.com - I am not saying whether one or the other has better coverage, but apparently maps rendered by Coversoft (www.coversoft.com) are much more accurate. Then again, it makes no difference from the customers' point of view, because we freely roam on both newtorks.
Posted by t68iNWO
CINGULAR AND T-MOBILE SHARE TOWERS AND HAVE THE EXACT SAME GSM NETWORK COVERAGE! I know, I work for Verizon and have access to all tower sites in the U.S. so that we can do our business. and yes, in central Texas, cingular customers see T-Mobile as the broadcasted operator on their handsets! I am a T-Mobile customer too (yes, T-Mobile has better coverage in Texas than Verizon)!!!!! I even pass up free mobile plans from verizon and would rather pay $50/month for better service and technology with T-Mobile. So cingularman, check the maps for yourself. moodswinger has it 100% correct.
Posted by cingularman
My point that i am trying to make is THE NATIONAL ROAMING PARTNER. with cingular is a&t . not t-moblie....there are Regional partnerships. AS far as Nation Untrue T-moblie has regional agreements. As far as the same network Untrue again. T-moblie in the great lakes region is GSM 1900 we are 850. Differnt Band. So networks are not the same. these to bands can seemlesly work together. Like at&t is 1900 here also And i am talking about coverage areas The FOOTPRINT for cingulars GSM area is bigger (with there roaming agreements included) . than t-moblie. actual areas that get the best reception not sure could not give a true answer on that. So not 100%.....lol i like GSM better also...(vs verizon) (i only work for an agent not cingular direct).
I did also look at the map on GSM world. They must not have put the udated map as far as Cingulars GSM 850 band
it is showing the 1900 Band......(On that map of the illinois area i see my house that little white dot no coverage)
[ This Message was edited by: cingularman on 2004-02-20 20:54 ]
[ This Message was edited by: cingularman on 2004-02-20 21:01 ]
[ This Message was edited by: cingularman on 2004-02-20 21:05 ]
[ This Message was edited by: cingularman on 2004-02-20 21:07 ]
Posted by amagab
I like a fired up debate. I myself just switched to Cingular. I've been loyal to T-Mobile and Voicestream since the mid-90s and felt really bad about switching but the fact is that Cingular has better coverage when I'm at home and when I'm at my friend's place. This merging should be good for coverage but lousy for competition. I'm sure prices won't go down anymore because of the merge. However, it will be interesting to see if Sprint will last through next generation.
Enjoy your GSM!!!
Posted by porterg
Here's the thing: t-mobile is strictly 1900mhz. A few of their phones have 850mhz enabled. ATT uses 1900, and have a good selection of phones that have 850mhz enabled. Cingular has 1900mhz in Carolinas and CA. The rest of their liscensened areas are being converted to 850mhz, and is mostly complete. 850 will give you a larger coverage area then 1900.
Now, att, cingular, and t-mobile customers will certainly use each others towers at time, and in NYC, philly, and Ca t-mobile and cingular are actually selling in same markets for 1900mhz. Verizon and US Cellular use each others towers. That is the nature of the business. NO ONE owns 100% of the country on their band, excepting sprint and Nextell.
With an 850/1900 mhz phone, your GSM coverage is VASTLY increased. 1900 has a max range of 5 miles radius. 850 has a potential for around 15 miles radius. The conversion project for Cingular, where an 850mhz module is added to all towers is very inexpensive to do. Since the towers are already in place, doesn't require all the legal requirements of liscensing, getting FCC, state, county and local permissions. Nor does it cost millions to put up. This gives greater coverage away from cities and highways. If you have 1900 only, and you go more the 3 miles off of, say, US95, in many areas say bye bye to coverage. 850 increases that in lots of areas. Basically increases rural areas.
Also, since Cingular will offer the exact same phones across the country, it allows someone from NJ to get their phone serviced in Ca. Reps will know what they are doing. If someone brings me a tdma, I am almost clueless, haven't worked with them in 6 years.
So, lets say a t-mobile cust with a v60 is travelling around NJ, and gets to an area where no gsm 1900, but there is cingular 850. They have no service, because most t-mobile phones have no 850 enabled. What it comes down to is that the actual Cingular owned GSM network is considerably larger then the T-mobile owned network. No one owns more digital towers then Cingular, and integrate ATT into the mix, gets even bigger.
Here is another thing:FCC is allowing analog only towers to be shut off in july 2006. Say goodbye to lots of very rural and mountain coverage, as well as many towers that loose lots of money.
Now, there is a map program that Cingular stores can show you that show true network coverage, as well as where plans and features work with the main carriers. Go into a store and ask to be show it if you do not believe me. I am really hoping that it is put on the cingular website. Would make sense to me.
Damn, my fingers really hurt now.
Posted by cingularman
This is very true cingular dosent own all of the coverage it offers it uses the roaming partnerships. Also right on with the GSM 850 they are doing the coversion natiowide. Now i learned this mourning from a DM from cingular once the aqusition of At&t completes there is going to be a switch on there network also. By that i mean any of there coverage areas that are still TDMA are going to be GSM very quickly. I belive their goal is to wipe out all analog before the 2006 deadline. For example cingular is working with Dobson Communications in northern Wisconsin for doing a switch to GSM there. this should be completed by March 2004....
Posted by porterg
Yup. And there is going to be actual large amounts of coverage through the mountain time zone. Cingular wants all of its TDMA and analog shut off by 2006. Can easily be done.